Dogs of War

Full Version: 8th Ed. Supposed Facts
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I'd like to preface this that everything below is from a post a guy on one of our Yahoo Groups put up from the UK. I cannot verify any of this; although I should have a chance to sit down with a book tonight as long as our FLGS actually get's there preview copy in, (I've alreayd heard of a few stores who were promised one and haven't received it with their shipments today) and then I'll make my own notes for the podcast later this week. I see a number of things I really don't like; but have a read:



OK. It is after midnight on Tuesday. I have gone through most of the rule book. I'm tired and don't feel like analyzing the magic lores yet.

I have just over 5 pages of changes and interesting things. With very little commentary from me, and for your readin enjoyment.

1. Turn sequence has not changed. Still move, magic, shoot , close combat.

2. Movement has Start of Turn, Charge, Compulsory, and Remaining moves.

3. Declare your charge. Target must make charge reaction before next charge is declared.

4. Always allowed to measure before declaring charge. BOO!

5. Redirecting the charge. If the target unit declares a FLEE reaction, the charging unit now has a choice: it can either attempt to complete the charge against the now-fleeing unit, or try to redirect its charge by making a Leadership test. If the test is failed, the charging unit must attempt to complete the charge against the original target. If the test is passed, however, the charging unit can declare a fresh charge against another viable target (the chargee may declare a charge reaction as normal.) IF there are no other suitable targets to charge, a charging unit cannot test to redirect. Each unit can only make one redirect per turn.

6. Units charge range is 2D6" + MV. Failed charge moves directly towards the target inches equal to the highest dice rolled.

7. If you charge a fleeing enemy and catch them, you can pass a leadership test to get an immediate reform maneuver.

8. Fleeing units flee in the direction they are facing. If you hit enemy or impassable terrain, take Dangerous Terrain test. You get to move through the enemy or terrain. If infantry, roll d6 per model. 2-6 fine. 1 model suffers 1 wound no armor save.

9. Units within 8 inches of an enemy can march if they pass a leadership test.

Magic

1. Roll 2D6 to determine number of dice available. Casting player rolls a D6 for each wizard. For each 6 rolled, add 1 dice to the power pool. Fleeing wizards don't count.
2. Power pool of dice can never exceed 12.
3. Dispelling player gets a number of dispel dice equal to the highest D6 roll of the two Winds of Magic dice. Dispelling player can roll D6 for each wizard. On a 6 player gets an extra dispel die.
4. Dispel pool can never exceed 12.
5. Can measure distance to make sure target is in range.
6. Target must be in forward arc. Does not need LOS.
7. Magic missiles do require LOS.
8. Augment spells do not require LOS.
9. Magical vortexes use templates. Place and move according to spell. Remains in play.
10. Minimum of 1 die used to cast a spell, maximum of 6.
11. Add total of dice, add wizard's level to equal or beat casting value.
12. Some spells have Boosted effects. Unless stated, you are using the base spell.
13. If you fail to cast or the total of the natural dice scores is 1 or 2, the wizard is unable to cast spells for the rest of the magic phase.
14. Any 2 sixes give you a irresistible force. Resolve the spell. Then roll on the miscast table.

Miscast table:

2-4 Place large template over wizard. No look out sir. Every model takes a S10 hit. Once damage is resolved, roll D6. On a 3 or less, wizard is removed as a casualty. On a 4 or more, D6 dice are lost from the power pool.

5-6 Put small template over wizard. S10 hit for all models and D6 dice lost from pool.

7 All models in base with wizard (but not the wizard) suffer S10 hit. D6 dice lost from pool.
8-9 Wizard and all other casters on the same side suffer S6 hit. D6 dice lost from pool.
10-12 Wizard level is reduced by D3 to a minimum of 0 and forgets a spell for each level lost. First spell lost is the one miscast.

15. To dispel, use any number of dice, (minimum of 1) and add wizards level for dispel. Must beat casting number. 2 sixes rolled to dispel is auto dispel.
16. Dwarfs get +2 to dispel, unless there is a wizard on their side in same army of part of an allied force.
17. Bound spells use dice from the pool. Number rolled must beat casting number of the spell. Bound spells can get IF. If IF and magic is within item, item dissolves. If bound spell is ability (ex Warrior priest spells) then cannot use bound spells for rest of the phase.

Shooting

1. Models in second rank can use front rank's line of sight to shoot.

2. "All models in a unit have to shoot at the same target. Due to the relative positions of the shooting unit and the target, it might happen that some models in
the firing unit can shoot the target while other models in the unit cannot (the target may be out of their forward arc or completely obscured by terrain or other models.) Sometimes, some models in the shooting unit will be out of range. In these situations, you're free to continue with the shot, but only those models permitted to shoot the target (and that have it within their weapons' range will fire.

In such circumstances, we assume that disciplined troops such as Elves simply do not fire at all and conserve ammunition. On the other hand, it's easy to imagine that more boisterous warriors, such as goblins, loose their arrows in an impressive looking (but hopeless and impossibly inaccurate) volley. In either case, for gaming purposes, these models do not shoot."

BADLY WORDED.

3. Shooting can wound any toughness on a 6+.

Close Combat:

1. Models in second rank can fight if model directly in front of them fights. No second rank to flank or rear. Second ranks only get 1 attack per model regardless of profile.
2. "Any unit that is at least 10 models wide is counted as being a horde. Warriors in a horde can make supporting attacks from the third rank, not just the second!"
3. Blows are struck in initiative order. If I is the same then attacks are simultaneous.
4. When a model as 2 or more Initiatives, resolve them in order. If all eligible models for attack have been removed, then the attacks are lost.
5. Combat Resolution:
+1 per wound
+1 if you charged.
+1 per rank with at least five models, maximum of +3
+1 for a standard
Flanks and rears negate ranks as long as the flanker has 2 ranks of 5 models.
+1 for flanking
+2 for rear
+1 if the unit charged down hill.
+1 for BSB in unit.
+1 for overkill, max of +5

6. Loser takes break test as normal. Modified leadership effects break test and "any subsequent attempt to make a combat reform." More later on that.
7. Steadfast: If a defeated unit has more ranks than its enemy, it takes its break test on unmodified leadership. Or generals leadership if in 12" range. Being flanked does not effect this.
8. Insane courage is still there.
9. Combat reform.
From victory: If your unit wins the close combat but the enemy does not flee, or the combat was a draw, your unit can immediately make a combat reform maneuver. Can turn to face enemy in flank or rear or expand frontage. Cannot be used to take model in base contact out of base contact.

From Loss: If your unit loses the combat, but does not flee, it can still attempt a combat reform. Must pass a Ld test with modifiers from break test. If steadfast or unbreakable, use unmodified Ld.

If unit is engaged to 2 sides it cannot combat reform.

10. Multiple close combats. If a side has more than one unit in a close combat then different combat res.
+1 for a standard
rank bonus is for best number of ranks in a single unit.
+1 for charging if a unit on your side charged.
High ground bonus if you charged from the highest ground.

Other:

1. ASF and ASLast ignore initiative. If you have both, then ignore and go to initiative.
2. Breath weapons are once per game. If a shooting attack, then use flame template. If used in close combat, model inflicts 2D6 automatic hits on single unit in base.
3. Devastating charge: Models with this rule get +1A on the charge.
4. After all troops have deployed including scouts, fast cav can make a 12" move before the game begins.
5. Fast cav can march and shoot.
6. At the start of each close combat round, a unit that is in base contact with one or more enemy models that cause fear must take a leadership test. If test is passed…good. If not, all models in the unit have WS1 for that round of combat.
7. Fight in extra ranks. – Troops with this rule can use an extra rank if they did not charge. Hordes with this rule will fight in 4 ranks.
8. Enemies with flaming attacks cause fear in war beasts, cav, chariots.
9. Frenzy troops don't have to charge if they pass a Ld test.
10. Some flyers will have the Hover rule. No marching for them.
11. Some shooting attacks will get to "Ignore Cover."
12. There is killing blow and Heroic Killing Blow. The heroic version will kill anything, including dragons.
13. Models with Stomp rule get ASL for that attack. It is 1 auto hit. Thunderstomp is D6 auto hits.

Monstrous Infantry:
1. 3 models for ranks. Get the Stomp rule. Monstrous Infantry in the second rank can use attacks in the profile up to 3 instead of the usual one.

Cavalry:
1. Get swiftstride rule for charge and flee. Roll 3D6, discard lowest and add movement. Second rank riders can attack not the mount.
2. If rider or mount have Frenzy, then the whole model is subject to Berserk Rage, but only the element with Frenzy gets the extra attack.
Monstrous Cavalry:
Like cav only bigger. Need 3 models for rank. Six frontage makes a horde.
Warbeasts are things like hounds.
Monstrous Beasts get stomp. Ex. Great eagle
Monsters get Thunderstomp.
Chariots: No change that I can see.

Hand weapon and Shield. NO LONGER A +1 to armor save. Is now a 6+ ward. Can't be used by frenzy.

Musicians: Normal stuff. Added Swift reform. A unit that is not fleeing and not engaged in combat can attempt to make a swift reform. Take a Ld test. Fail, do reform as normal. If pass, then reform and take a normal move, not a march.

Characters can move to the fighting rank from anywhere in the unit before combat begins.

War machine crew that panic due to destroyed friends, etc do not abandon the gun. They simply cannot shoot in the next shooting phase.

Any models touched by war machine templates are hit. Shows example of 5x4 unit on 20mm bases. Template is centered on middle guy of third row. 18 of 20 models are hit. The one guy under the hole.

Army Comp:

1. Must have General…..duh.
2. Minimum 3 units.
3. 25% can spend on Lords.
4. 25% can spend on Heroes.
5. 25% on Core.
6. Up to 50% on Special.
7. Up to 25% on rare.
8. Army cannot contain more than 3 special choices of the same type and 2 rare choices of the same type.
9. In a "Grand Army" (3000+ pts) up to 6 duplicate specials and 4 duplicate rare.

Then 6 scenarios (versions of pitched battle according to them.) Then 350 pages of fluff and `Eavy Metal.
Seems pretty awesome. I am really looking forward to 8th ed. I loved the games previous incarnations, though they had their flaws, and I am sure I will love this one, though again, I am sure it will have flaws as well


(06-15-2010 02:49 PM)jpf1982 Wrote: [ -> ]4. Always allowed to measure before declaring charge. BOO!

I don't see why everyone is so perturbed by this? Previously you could not measure ranges because they were set, thus the fact that you could not be sure added a random element. Now Charge ranges are random, so measuring does not have the previous level of effect.
Yes, but this also allows you to pre-measure shooting ranges, magic ranges, etc... I think that's the stink. That and the old tactics of bait/flee, etc... may not be viable any longer.

Also these facts are really solid; I got a quick look through the movement/charging section; this is factual information.

(06-15-2010 06:29 PM)Shane Wrote: [ -> ]Seems pretty awesome. I am really looking forward to 8th ed. I loved the games previous incarnations, though they had their flaws, and I am sure I will love this one, though again, I am sure it will have flaws as well


(06-15-2010 02:49 PM)jpf1982 Wrote: [ -> ]4. Always allowed to measure before declaring charge. BOO!

I don't see why everyone is so perturbed by this? Previously you could not measure ranges because they were set, thus the fact that you could not be sure added a random element. Now Charge ranges are random, so measuring does not have the previous level of effect.
All look pretty spot on from what I was reading last night.

Few others, there is no movement penalty for difficult terrain, instead you roll a dice if your a certain type of unit (cav/monster/chariot) and take a wound on a 1 or something like that, flyers move 10, can march 20, true LOS means you can likely shoot through forests but get -1 to hit.


OHH OHH OHH!!! We gunna love this one..stats of a basic "cannon" is 48inch range, S10, D6 wounds... MUHAHAHAHAHA Big Grin Great cannon just has longer range, also no more guess range on them, just place your spot, add you "overshot" roll on the arty dice, then roll for bounce.
You also pick a point with the stone thrower.

Which could lead to some interesting placements, I think.
BUT stonethrower allows armour saves now I think (couldnt find a rule under the page saying it ignored them) and its S9/3 with no partials.
True, though the no partials could make up a lot. At least against human, elven, skaven, greenskin, most undead, marauder, and even deamon infantry. In fact it's much deadlier on Daemon infantry now! Against them, no partials and "only" -1 to save might be better! The S3 hurts a bit though, but most of the above is T3 at least.

The allowance of armor saves is more problematic against more heavily armored foes like heavy cavalry, chaos warriors, saurus, Dwarfs of any type, and grave guard.
Some of the changes are the dumbing down (40king) of Warhammer. Warhammer is supposed be a more serious (tougher) game than Lord of the Rings, 40k and War of the Ring.
They have simplified the rules a bit, but from reading through the book I think it might actually be quite good.
Rules change, old tactics disappear, and new ones will emerge. The concept remains the same, and the game continues to be fun for those who enjoy it because of it's nature, not it's specifics. It's just like choosing an army, in that, if you choose an army for a certain unit/build/special rule, when the new book comes out for it, or when another army is released that can do that one thing better, it won't be fun anymore, but if you choose to play that army for it's style/imagery/concept, then even though the play style will change, it will keep being what you enjoy.

As for Warmachines, if our cannons now inflict D6 wounds, that will be awesome.

In addition, Stone Throwers now allowing armour (unless you are the model under the hole) is spectacular for two reasons. The first is that our troops will get armour saves against them. Hurray! The second is that out Hot Pot SPECIFICALLY says in it's description that it IGNORES armour, which, by toning down it's competition, makes it that much better!
I spent 3-1/2 hours with the book last night and took 9 pages of notes, not even thorough; but will record the podcast tonight and hopefully post tonight so people can listen on thursday, keep the eye out for it Smile
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