One interesting thing I've considered is perhaps comboing Pikemen with spells.
For instance, how about the Alcatani Fellowship with Lore of Lights "Speed of Light" spell, which boosts weaponskill and initiative to 10. That gets rid of one of their weaknesses (being weaponskill 2), and actually combo's somewhat decently as it means you'll hit on 3's as well as re-roll all misses.
There are lots of nice buff spells in the game. Although I don't think any 'one' buff spell turns Pikemen from meh to fearsome, if you could potentially combo two together people may get a scare.
For instance, speed of light (as above) and Okkam's Mindrazor - unit's strength is their leadership! Comboing those together on a 25 strong Pike block would result in ~18 wounds before armour (at -4).
I just think it's an interesting concept. Because the benefit of Pikes is ASF and lots and lots of attacks. So if you can somehow make those attacks deadly and hit more often... So while Pikes are still a lost cause (Not the greatest idea to rely on something as fickle as magic), I think there's still some very interesting potential from the new ruleset.
Please by all means do correct me if I am wrong here.
From what I am reading under the new 8th edition rules when choosing troops Dogs of War players may now have the following:
25% max lords (includes mounts)
25% max heroes
25% MIN core
50% max special
25% max rare
This replaces being bound to the old Army Value restrictions on troop selections that were:
<2,000 Core 2+ Special 0-3 Rare 0-1
2,000-2,999 Core 3+ Special 0-4 Rare 0-2
3,000-3,999 Core 4+ Special 0-5 Rare 0-3
+1,000 Core +1 Special +1 Rare +1
So now with 8th edition for I can take up to 10 (Rare) Halfling hot pots in a 2000 point army ?
Again in a 2000 point Army take 33 Kislev LIGHT CAVALRY armed with hand weapons and bows (15 points each) for my MINIMUM Core ?
And for Special troops in a 2000 point army choose 1 unit of 166 (6 point) Halflings armed with Hand weapon and bow ?
Just wanting to know if I am calculating costs correctly ?
There are a few more caveats for army composition, such as a three unit minimum, and the terrain generation tables (variable amount of terrain, but a minimum of 4 pieces and it can get up there to over 6) means that large units may get bogged down easily in the terrain
In addition to the above, I believe that their is a limit on reproduction of none core units, with a certain special or rare unit only being able to be reproduced a certain number of times, which I believe is 3 for special, and 2 for rare.
Thus, the Rare (non RoR) combination I expect to become common for Dogs of War armies is my often mentioned 2xCannon, 2x Hot Pot, 1x Giant.
Ah, Rare Choices: No more than 2 of the same type. Special Choices: No more than 3 of the same type
Still with Halfling Hot Pots, whole template, Touched = Hit, No saves are allowed, making them arguably some of the best artillery in the game, cheap as dirt. So cheap there is no reason not to take them.
Kislev Horse Archers (Light Cavalry) have all the bonuses of Fast Cavalry, free reforms, feigned flight, and now with improved rate of fire. So they can operate like Mongols (Bait, Flee, Isolate, Destroy), and they are CORE units, no limits on how many you can take, oh joy.
Norse Marauders will not lose frenzy if they lose in combat. Seems like frenzy and hatred are losing negative aspects...
Halflings suffer no movement penalties when moving through wooded terrain, BS 4.
All lists are now on a more even keel in the magic department. That alone opens up wide range of possibilities.
I see a whole bunch tactical strategies with what used to be considered garbage units. More terrain to break up the field, there will be fewer traditional boring open field slug fests which have always been so very common. I would wager a much different type of game being played out. Perhaps I am being over optimistic ?
Well, I don't know the specifics of how the new psychology rules work, so I can't comment on those.
Yeah, the Hot Pot has gotten a significant boost, while comparable choices (stone throwers) in other armies have gotten toned down. That, combined with the fact that taking one does not deny you a cannon (which now do D6 wounds across the board!) makes our little Halfling cooks a great choice.
Also, how do you figure horse archers (or any mounted unit with ranged weapons) have an increased rate of fire?
(06-18-2010 12:59 PM)Shane Wrote: [ -> ]Also, how do you figure horse archers (or any mounted unit with ranged weapons) have an increased rate of fire?
'increased rate of fire' was a poor wording on my part, oops.
Volly Fire: Units armed with bows, short bows and longbows may shoot with an additional half a rank for every rank behind the 2nd. I.e. 12 models wide, 3 ranks (36 models). 12 front rank, 12 2nd rank, 6 3rd rank = 30 shots. Volley fire only applies if you haven't moved though and not when you stand and shoot.
Well, I suppose that IF the volley rules apply to cavalry, and IF you are going to get a second rank of Light Cav with bows, then that would work, but I have to think there is a better way to use them. Several units of bow armed fast cavalry with the Vanguard rule will indeed be hard to deal with for many opponents!
In larger games (2000pts), I am going to try and fit in 5 cav with no gear for when i fight Orcs and goblins, and specifically the goblins. That early move would let us pull out fanatics very fast!
(06-18-2010 12:52 PM)Hrolfr Varini Wrote: [ -> ]Halflings suffer no movement penalties when moving through wooded terrain, BS 4.
Note, and I could be wrong but I think all infantry can move through woods freely now. That was a rumour I heard, and haven't backed it up with reading yet. (Books huge to go through, and was getting ready for tournament so needed to paint more than sit down with the book).
So if that's true, not useful for Halfings! Halflings are useful because they can fire in two ranks, are bs4 and are cheap! Skirmishing doesn't seem a must have anymore so Lumpin may be retiring in the face of these marksmen.
Nah, Lumpin and his boys will just be a ranked unit, a 'stand in' if you will. And when someone questions why the squad is not lead by the one and only Lumpin, and instead by some imposter, well then, it just means that after the battle, the fighting cocks have to catch up on their training exercise!
I also believe wooded terrain, which was classified as 'difficult' in 7th, no longer slows infantry down. However, it will take a good reading of both the rule books terrain section and Lumpin's rules, as there may be some other advantage to be gained by that ability.
One thing that I was considering today was the inclusion of command in our units. I assume it is fairly common practice to not include command in cheaper/undefended units, but that may change with the inclusion of new rules connected to command models, which would impact the composition of many of our armies.
So, I was looking at the goblin hewer, and it seems like it will probably be more effective this edition since we will see larger ranked units. More ranks = more hits!
Good call, i did not even think about that!
(06-18-2010 12:52 AM)someone2040 Wrote: [ -> ]Although I don't think any 'one' buff spell turns Pikemen from meh to fearsome, if you could potentially combo two together people may get a scare.
Pikemen needing 2 Magic buffs are more proof of FAIL.
Tacking on an extra 200 points of Wizards to make Pikes usable, along with Duellists to cover flanks, and Light Cav to redirect?
It'd be a lot easier to simply start with a less junk unit.
Exactly.
You can buff any unit. It shouldn't really be considered as a strength because it is too variable.
I got my rulebook today, so if anyone has specific questions I can answer them.
There is 7 spells to each lore . The first is a signitaure spell that everyone of that lore know. Then there is 6 more However, most spells have this ability where you can cast a more powerful type of that spell, but the casting value goes up.
Skirmishers do have flanks and rears but can reform as many times as they want, as long as no model ends up moving a number of inches higher then its move value. They can move and shoot. However the -1 to hit penalty for moving and shooing applies. However, pistols have an ability called "quick to fire" which means they don't have the -1 penalty for moving and shooting. Skirmishers can't claim a rank bonus, negate a rank.
Bound spells still need to be cast, using dice from the powerpool. A non-wizard character can do this.
If you get charged in the flank or rear you are screwed as you will probably have twice the attacks made against you. No suppoting attacks for a flank or rear charge.
The two magic items I'm worried about are " The other trickster's shard" which is 15 points and cause all models in base contact with the bearer to re-roll successful ward saves. And the "Helm of Discord" , you get +1 to your armour save and in addition at the start of each close combat phase, choose an enemy character in base contact wuth the bearer or his unit. That character must immediately take a leadership test. If the test is failed, in this close combat phase the visctim cann't make attacks and is hit automatically.
No mention of Dogs of War in the rulebook in the various sections, fluff pictures of models, etc
Not as a nation. I can only see a few mentions of Estalia and Tilea, and it treats them like places, such as 7th did with Cathay, but only in passing and doesn't even have a page dedicated to the none authorised armies. The best thing you can hope for is that GW will to do a PDF on Dogs of War and then do an expansion, like Apocalypse for mercenaries or for them to be in the 8th edition Empire army book . There is a miniature in the converting miniatures section called "Empire Duellist" that has two hand weapons, no shield. Make of that what you will.
Also forgot to mention that frenzied models can't parry, so Beorg's men can't parry with their shield and just get a +1 armour save for a shield.
Also regarding pistol armed duelists.
Pistols now have a 12 inch range but do not get to ignore the long range penalty, and skirmishers can march and shoot, giving the duelists and effective shooting range of 8+12 inches.
Do pistols still always get to stand and shoot? Also, do skirmishers fight in two ranks like other infantry?
Always stand and shoot (to the front arc), yes (pistols and throwing weapons)
May never claim rank bonus (therefore steadfast), but can get supporting attacks.
Duelists will be hitting on 5s if they are shooting at long range now instead of base 4+ to hit, stand and shoot will depend on the range at which they declare the charge, it would actually pay to close the distance so you get to stand and shoot in close range.
Well there goes ogre kingdoms for my Dogs of War . Thanks errata.....
"Well there goes ogre kingdoms for my Dogs of War . Thanks errata....."
I almost don't want to ask what that means.
The FAQs for books that still reference Dogs of War have a line stating to ignore all references to Dogs of War.
Precedence has been set, however. Choices such as lords on dragons, who take a lord AND a hero only draw their points from the lord section. So it is reasonable to say that anything that takes a Lord AND a Special or a Rare AND a Hero slot will only add it's points to the first area, a Lord and Rare, respectively.
No Dogs of War in my dwarfs. That's a darn shame I was just starting having fun with the goblin hewer in 8th ed! I almost never took the thing in 7th because of competing slots. I haven't read the Faq's yet, but a friend was telling that with the ogre kingdoms that removed 'bull charge' for anything used in a non- OK army.
I don't think my local group will not mind if a play with it on occation, but it will definiately be out for touriment play (with 8th ed is not all about any way)!
It looks like players are on there own to bring the Dogs of War into 8th ed.