I play a lot of different armies, simply because I love painting and converting so much. Skaven are one of those armies I can relish in the later, and enjoy the former. Plus I have always found them kinda cool.
I do play Skaven. I tend to run with 3 large units of clanrats (28 being 7 wide. One has the doomwheel added to it). I don't go heavy shooting (a total of 6 jezzails and 2 weapon teams typically. Occassionally a third if I'm not going as heavy on magic). A unit of Plague Monks (21 being 7 wide) a unit of Censer Bearers. Magic is at least a gray seer and plague priest. Sometimes a lvl 1 engineer added.
I have the wheel. Simply because I love the model so much. It is an amazing sculpt, very steampunk.
It's a lot more... wild... than the Abom. Plus once it is dead, it stays dead.
So what say you, which do you find nastier? The Abom or Doomwheel? Just curious as I don't want to be "that guy" when I run my Skaven.
Common consensus is that the Abomb is übercheesy, whereas the Doomwheel is mostly... weird. So I'd go with the Doomwheel
Doomwheel is definately much less ridiculous. I would even go so far as to say it about works! The Doomwheel is definately the better choice, and if anyone tries to give you flak, they clearly don't have a good understanding of the game-breaking ridiculousness that is the A-bomb.
Plus, the Doomwheel has an (awesome) model!
Thank goodness, as I'd rather field the Doomwheel than the A-bomb any day of the week.
I love the steampunk nature of Skaven. I might eventually make my Stormvermin to be Gas Mask wearing Clanrats... perhaps with some sort of gizmo like armor...
Though if I ever did field the A-bomb (probably in a 3k game) I would use the forgeworld Chaos Spined Beast I won at a tournament a while back and have no idea what to use it for...
Don't be too concerned with whether or not something is overpowered when thinking about including it in your army. If you like how it looks and how it plays, great! Use it an enjoy it, see how your group handles it, most armies have some equally ridiculous choices, so it shouldn't be a big problem. If you find that it continually sweeps the field and that your opponents have to tailor their entire strategy or army to go against it, consider paying a few more points for it, or toning it down yourself.
Still, I'd go with the doomwheel. Definately fits into the steampunk look, like you said, and it's classic skaven.
(05-18-2010 10:45 PM)Shane Wrote: [ -> ]Don't be too concerned with whether or not something is overpowered when thinking about including it in your army.
Not everyone has that luxury. And not everyone likes to be seen as the powergamer guy in the group.
That said, I hate them both (playing against), but the Abom is the more powerful, simply because
1/ its always practically 2D6 S6 hits, and,
2/ once its dead, it often becomes something else.
Don't forget the magic of a 360 charge, and the fact that it will effectively ignore 1/2 of what you try and hurt it with, as well as the fact that it actually can flee from charges.
I prefer the doomwheel as well. It's a bit cheaper and a lot more fun to play with.
That said I own 2 old model doomwheels, which are in my opinion cooler than the new model.
*raises two thumbs towards Squirrelfreak*...
You, dear Sir, are frikkin' awesome for that last comment made. I absolutely agree with you. ^_^
On the matter of which unit is less cheesey, I'd say that more or less depends on how you play. People with a powergaming mindset can make a very destructive unit out of a Doomwheel as well.
Greetz
Yeah, but even well played it is nowhere near the mindless death dealer that the A-Bomb is. Its almost like a well tooled Demon army in a single model. Point-kill, if you run into problems, you can probably dice your way out of them, and if not, well, you ignore half the game rules anyways.
And really, you like the old models betterÉ I get the nostalgia idea, but I was just really impressed by the new model.
A-bomb has never caused me troubles, Cheesewheel is pure win because its so damm reliable! You cannot keep it out of the game, its too quick, can charge anything and causes massive damage if it hits stuff (which it will!!).
I've never played against the Abomination, but I do see the doomwheel quite a bit. A friend of mine, who is a skaven player,(been a skaven player for 10+ years) refuses to build/take an Abomination. He's the kind of guys who enjoys a good game, and often wins touriments playing what he wants to play.
He won't touch it with a 10' pole, thinks its far too over the top.
He will however take a doomwheels, the sucker is great at sniping monsters, but if you can get it into CC is breaks pretty easily.
Yep, both ranged shooting and good Close Combat can break the Doomwheel down. Its real strengths, as you said, are monster hunting, and Terror. Its definately a good choice all around, though, since you will rarely see it go down quickly or not make up its points.
Just note that one doomwheel is one thing, but two doomwheels are another.
I know some people definately rate twin Doomwheels over an abomination.
I would most certainly rate TWO doomwheels over ONE A-Bomb.
No, I don't run two doomwheels. In a 4k game, assuming I ever have enough Skaven for that, I might... but that's a whole different ball park!
My 2nd rare choice is used, and it is occupied by the Cannon. Primarily for dealing with VC bunkers...
Well yeah it's more for nostalgia that i like the models really. The old one has a more hamsterwheel look than the new one.
That said I never take a abom with me. I think it's too cheesy and besides my friends almost take something fire based with them like my dwarf friend with 2 burning boltthrowers (with different runesets of course) So he's the one that takes most of my misslefire on turn 1 (and maybe 2 if I'm lucky). It's all casual play here with us.
However if I would make a competitive list I think I would include one even though it's against my principles.
I think facing the Abom is deadlier and scarier than the eccentric Doomwheel.
(05-21-2010 01:53 AM)Squirrelfreak Wrote: [ -> ]...my friends almost take something fire based with them like my dwarf friend with 2 burning boltthrowers (with different runesets of course) So he's the one that takes most of my misslefire on turn 1 (and maybe 2 if I'm lucky). It's all casual play here with us.
That is actually, to get off topic a bit, one of my big problems with the Regenerate save. Armies which can easily put out fire damage have little trouble dealing with large regenerating models, and those of us who can't end up hoping a level 2 mage with Lore of Fire gets a spectacular casting off, otherwise it is going to take twice the effort to deal with.
Don't get me wrong, I like the regen, and the ignored by fire, but it would be nice to see other regen saves, like 5+, or even 6+.
I have no issues with the a-bomb cause my main army is Ogres, and I just hit it with multiple braingobbers and its often off the board in turn 1 or 2, cant do that with the immune to psych doomwheel so it causes me much more pain.
For those of us without the Ogre book handy (like me!
) want to give me a heads up on the Braingobbler ability? Are we talking spell, ability?
Oh, I forgot to say earlier, any Skaven player worth their cheese will give the A-Bomb a magical resistance, as it is the only upgrade it can take, and it was made to have it, which means that even drawing out all of their dice/scrolls and then trying to surprise it with a flaming spell is no guarantee.
Its a spell, so only available to an OK army sadly, but it forces you to take a panic check or run away, I normally have a item (skull mantle)that puts -1 to all ld tests caused by that butcher and his unit, can cast it upto 3 times a magic round with 3 butchers so thats a potential of 3 leadership tests at ld7 a magic phase for it, if your really nasty you can take the Brahmir status and take another -3 off that test... (that tayloring your army a bit much which we dont tend to do).
Indeed, that is a plan. And the spell goes off at what? Power level 4 or some such? Against a monster with a built in MR1, and a highly magical army, if successful you give it a 50/50 chance of fleeing or better? For the cost of what? 3 Butchers + Skull mantle? Gotta be around 250pts?
I mean, if it works for you, and they are generally helpful to your army, great, but that seems like a huge investment in 'maybe' to me.
Well you also get a 10PD army if you build the list to be a heavy magic one
so its just a way to deal with it that has worked in every game I have played with my OK against Skaven players that have taken it against me so far, they are more interested in stopping my buff spells or I just spam casting it on 2PD enough times, it will get through eventually.