HEllo and good morning.
Im playing 40k on a pretty high level and have decided to play alittle dogs of war on the side for the fun of fantasy.
What kind of 8th edition changes do you people expect to influence dogs of war?
(multiple ranks attack, no partials)
-will pikes be doable again?
-will the goblin hewer be a must?
-what kind of armies-choices whould you use to deal with increadably large units fighting with alot of ranks?
Im not so far with my army yet, but i have the following:
9 duelists, additional hand weapons or pistols
mengil manhides with a total of 9 men
loomping crooks fighting cooks around 6 strong
Azarnil the dragon lord
I though about adding a unit of fast cavl to the army for my second core choice and a mage. Or do i have enough march block in mengils and crook? Atm im using duelists as a scree and to redirect treemen and such. (Atm im borowing voland, a hot pot, the bs 4 crosbows and a few chars from a friend, just untill i have a Dogs of War army of my own) I could get a unit of norse to add the mage and paymaster to. Maybe beorg and take beast magic?
But i feel like im missing a large center unit. Or what?
I also though about getting a goblin hewer to take on thouse insanly large skaven units i see at the local gaming store.
So all input is welcome, im a noob afterall.
Hello,
i don't know if many people will play huge blocks of infantry, because these blocks tend to be slow and hulky. If you marchblock it or simply shot it with volley after volley of hewer and crossbow shots, there will be a panic test eventually...same when you land with Asarnil near them and they fail their terror test. Suddenly alot of points are running...as a greenskin player i wont use such a monster unit.
Mengil and his mates can easily cut through light armoured infantry such as Empire State Troops or most Elf units, as can Crossbows and even a cannon can deal serious damage if jumping through 7 or 8 ranks.
Duelists with pistols are always a good choice, alot better than add. handweapons. With Mengil and Croop you have good marchblockers, Asarnil is always a good choice and with Voland and a few crossbows you can never go wrong. A unit of 4 Maneaters with Brace Of Handguns should stop most of the behemoth blocks too. First a nice Stand 'n Shoot (or even a charge) and then let them come...and if things run bad, maneaters are stubborn and will fight in most cases. Next turn you an flank the unit with Voland or Light Kav. and negate the rank bonus.
Pikes could perform well, yes. Since most armies will have to use more infantry to fill their core, a nice unit of pikemen (Ricco or Leopold) will be a good choice again, especially if supported by pistol duelists!
The Goblin Hewer is always funny, I like him alot. First the model is great and second, it's worth its weight in gromril vs. horde armies.
Welcome to the world of fantasy!
Mork
ok, but were whould you put the paymaster and mage if you dont run with a large center unit or pikes? with a unit of some what 15 crossbows?
how whould the following sound?
azarnil
level 2 mage (lore of fire?)
paymaster with light armour and shield (spare 5 point and better save compared to heavy armour)
9 duelists with pistols
15 crossbowmen mage and paymaster goes here
7 croop
9 mengil manhides
that hits 1249. In 1500 i could add 3 maneaters with 2 braces and remove the light armour on the paymaster. Maybe cut some crossbows to get the right equipment on the maneaters?
Looks like a promising list
(04-19-2010 01:33 PM)Davros Wrote: [ -> ]Looks like a promising list
I just feel that i miss some cc bad***-nes? (rank and file that kicks a bit of cc butt)
Is azarnil best used against monsters and knights?
What weapons takes on heavy armoured ranks the best (chaos chosen and such)? crossbows and fire magic?
what is up with the dodgy smiley?
For 1500, you could remove one of Mengil's lads, and then buy Heavy Armour for the Paymaster and a third Brace for the Maneaters. And if you remove a crossbowman, you could give the paymaster a crossbow... 2 points for a shot with better BS, and the feeling that the paymaster isnt completely useless!
Crossbows and (even more) pistols can thin out most units, regardless of their armour. If a unit of crossbowers manage to kill 5 chosen chaoswarriors in one game they killed their own weight in points already...same if they manage to kill 2 chaos knights!
The lore for your wizard is dependent from your mate's army. Fire magic is always nice, Lore Of Beasts is also good, especially if you get the spear thrower spell! My personal favorite is the Lore of Shadows...but it's better on a wizard lord than on a single lvl 2 mage.
Your best weapon vs heavy troops is indeed asarnil and his fellow dragon, but the best thing Asarnil gives you is his flying terror causing pet. Even one failed terror test can turn the tide of the battle in smaler games! And if they don' run...well, the dragon is hungry for sure..
(04-19-2010 12:58 PM)Omalley69 Wrote: [ -> ]paymaster with light armour and shield (spare 5 point and better save compared to heavy armour)
That's wrong. Because you could have an even better save if you actually took heavy armour. With Heavy Armour its a 4+/3+ compared to a 5+/4+ save. (Out of combat/In combat).
Overall. Don't start planning for 8th edition until 8th edition hits. There are so many wild rumours going around, what one thinks may be a good choice may end up being pretty mediocre when 8th edition does actually land.
Basically, if there's any truth to the 25% cap of hero's, then Asarnil is gone until 2500 points at minimum.
I compared shield and light armour vs heay armour without shield (both options costs 4 points.
As far as i can see a crossbow for the paymaster costs 10 points?
The reason why i wanted to be prepared for 8. ed is that i want to minimise that amount of fatansy on my shelfs.
Although I am also a newbie here, I agree with Morkash's suggestions. Personally, I love the shooty units and the fast-moving cavalry! You can also achieve a lot with great numbers of less-expensive units (the generic infantry and cavalry), if you can surround enemy units--especially units that start dying off when defeated and cannot retreat (like some of the Undead). That has been one of the Skaven's strongest assets: their large numbers of inexpensive troops.
I'm always fearful of losing a high-priced unit, since that leaves a huge hole in my strategy! So, I usually prefer surrounding the enemy with large numbers of troops.
(04-21-2010 04:50 AM)miklamar Wrote: [ -> ]Although I am also a newbie here, I agree with Morkash's suggestions. Personally, I love the shooty units and the fast-moving cavalry! You can also achieve a lot with great numbers of less-expensive units (the generic infantry and cavalry), if you can surround enemy units--especially units that start dying off when defeated and cannot retreat (like some of the Undead). That has been one of the Skaven's strongest assets: their large numbers of inexpensive troops.
I'm always fearful of losing a high-priced unit, since that leaves a huge hole in my strategy! So, I usually prefer surrounding the enemy with large numbers of troops.
I guess your not the only one. I played a skaven army. 1k a unit of 38 clan rats supported by a mage a 10 or 15 man helbard unit and a warp beast rat (the big rare thing)...I got slaughtered big time with my old Dogs of War army.
Im joining a 2250 turney next month. Dogs of War amougst others play with 2500 points. Deamons and vampires are down at 2k. I thought about the following:
azarnil
level 4 beast mage - voland on horse?
level 2 fire mage - crossbows
paymaster, crossbow - crossbows
9 duelists, pistols
10 crossbows
volands maybe 8 strong
3 maneaters, brace
3 maneaters, brace
croop 7 strong
mengil 9 strong
although im abit in doubt about were the level 4 mage should go. I chould do a 8 man volands with a beast mage on horse to boost voland or a maxed horse paymaster. could be fun.
What do you champs think?
(04-21-2010 04:02 PM)Omalley69 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2010 04:50 AM)miklamar Wrote: [ -> ]Although I am also a newbie here, I agree with Morkash's suggestions. Personally, I love the shooty units and the fast-moving cavalry! You can also achieve a lot with great numbers of less-expensive units (the generic infantry and cavalry), if you can surround enemy units--especially units that start dying off when defeated and cannot retreat (like some of the Undead). That has been one of the Skaven's strongest assets: their large numbers of inexpensive troops.
I'm always fearful of losing a high-priced unit, since that leaves a huge hole in my strategy! So, I usually prefer surrounding the enemy with large numbers of troops.
I guess your not the only one. I played a skaven army. 1k a unit of 38 clan rats supported by a mage a 10 or 15 man helbard unit and a warp beast rat (the big rare thing)...I got slaughtered big time with my old Dogs of War army.
Im joining a 2250 turney next month. Dogs of War amougst others play with 2500 points. Deamons and vampires are down at 2k. I thought about the following:
azarnil
level 4 beast mage - voland on horse?
level 2 fire mage - crossbows
paymaster, crossbow - crossbows
9 duelists, pistols
10 crossbows
volands maybe 8 strong
3 maneaters, brace
3 maneaters, brace
croop 7 strong
mengil 9 strong
although im abit in doubt about were the level 4 mage should go. I chould do a 8 man volands with a beast mage on horse to boost voland or a maxed horse paymaster. could be fun.
What do you champs think?
I'm more of a "chap" than a "champ," but I like your list, with its crossbows and Voland's Venators!
Do you have enough tough infantry, in case the enemy closes? The crossbowmen don't have much defense. What about a unit of Dwarfs with shields? They are tough, resistant to magic, and probably one of the best infantry in the Old World.
I just feel that dwarfs are hard to manuver. I had long drog in my old army, and people just ran around him even though he was in the center.
But yes the thought has crossed my mind several times. But whould you drop 2 maneaters for 18 dwarfs?
Is there any point in putting a mage in the voland unit?
I would say that putting a mage in with Voland would be a bad idea, because Voland and his Venators are a great cavalry unit for us. Consequentially, you will want to charge as many things as possible with him, thus putting that mage at a higher risk of being killed by some lucky unit barely worth his salt.
Ive thought about adding some norse instead of dwarfs.
What weapons whould you put on them?
I feel that they need som strenght, maybe gw?
This whould also give me a second unit for my mages to hang around.
(04-29-2010 09:56 AM)Omalley69 Wrote: [ -> ]Ive thought about adding some norse instead of dwarfs.
What weapons whould you put on them?
I feel that they need som strenght, maybe gw?
This whould also give me a second unit for my mages to hang around.
I like to give Dwarfs shields--they last longer that way! Also, I've considered giving them crossbows (5 points, each), since they might as well shoot, while they're waiting around for the enemy to close!