Dogs of War

So July this year 8th edition comes out. Here is what the front cover is going to be:
[attachment=232]


This is definite - I got it in an email from GW.

I am looking forward to it - what about you?

(04-19-2010 02:06 AM)Verezzo Wrote: [ -> ]So July this year 8th edition comes out. Here is what the front cover is going to be:



This is definite - I got it in an email from GW.

I am looking forward to it - what about you?

I'm not looking forward to the extortionate amount I will have to pay for a set of rules that a) probably hasn't changed that much and b) the changes that have been made I'll probably dislike.

I think they got it right with 7th, tbh, but then again I'm enough of a grump to think that 3rd edition was the best.

I'm not sure, it depense on the rules, if they make te game more balanced then it would be positive.

(To the webmaster: the poll text should probably be placed add the left on the line, like the thread title)

I'm looking forward to it.
I'm hoping that a new edition will breath life into Warhammer fantasy. At my local GW, Fantasy is basically never played at all. It's all 40k, with a smidge of War of the Ring happening.
It's unfortunately a sad state of affairs, and I just hope as GW hype up the new edition, it'll bring some balance back into the force.

I'm looking forward to it. As someone said, maybe the 8th edition will "encourage" more people to play Fantasy again, most people I know play 40k now...
To the rules and things: Some of the rumoured changes sound quite nice for us. If GW reanimates the % system, we are one of the few armies which "suffer" not as hard as others will. If it is 25% character, 25%+ core, 25% elite or something similar, my armylist could almost stay the same. A Pegasus Sorcerer Lord, the paymaster and a captasus come in just around 500 points! With Voland, our Crossbowers, Duelists and maybe Pikes we use alot of core choices, so no problem here either. Special choices are the only minor problem, as it prohibits the combination of several expensive units like Maneaters, big Dwarf regiment and Mengil. Rare should be okay, even the Giants Of Albion fit into a 25% limit..
The change of the magic system could make a scroll caddy not as obligatory-choice as it is now...leaves us a few more points and choices as we are already handicapped with our dear paymaster.
Greetings
Mork

6th Ed/7th Ed were virtually the same edition, a couple of cosmetic changes that didnt really affect game play

The biggest changes have come in the army books. 6th Ed army books were superb, not perfect by a long shot, but great.

7th Ed army books are just plain broken, and getting worse if Skaven/Beasts is anything to go by.

8th Ed - The return of HeroHammer.

Bring Back 3rd Ed, all is forgiven!

The full newsletter for those who do not subscribe to it:



"The Games Workshop Newsletter 18.04.2010
In this issue: Incoming! Warhammer - The Game of Fantasy Battles

Incoming! Warhammer

Warhammer is coming! This July heralds the coming of Warhammer, The Game of Fantasy Battles.
Warhammer

The Warhammer world is a place riven by relentless warfare and the corrupting power of dark magic. It’s a place where vile creatures and titanic monsters roam the lands, where vast armies of evil warriors unleash slaughter upon their victims and only the unceasing valour of the forces of Order prevent the whole world slipping away into chaos and death.

Amidst this tapestry of conflict and carnage are races fair and foul, warriors chivalrous and brutal. These are the combatants who fight for dominance of the world. From the blasted north come warmongering tribes of Chaos Warriors, armour-clad barbarians who have thrown their lot in with the Dark Gods of Chaos. In the Badlands gather the greenskinned marauders known as the Orcs and Goblins, vicious, brutal creatures whose insatiable lust for war grows almost as quickly as their vast numbers. Beneath the cities of the civilised realms nestle the repulsive ratmen, subhuman creatures whose machinations spread disease and distrust – these are the Skaven and they wish only to destroy and dominate all others. Even the forests of the Old World are not safe, for the trees themselves are things of malign presence and the Beastmen dwell within, the children of Chaos – braying beasts who crave slaughter and the chance to enact their savagery on the civilised races.

The Warhammer world is a place where you must bury your dead deeply, for Necromancers and Vampires raise the legions of undeath in their war against the living. Far away in the south the legendary kings of a long-dead kingdom now awaken, leaving their vast tomb cities to wage war upon all under the sun, their skeletal legions a chilling parody of their once glittering majesty.

All these examples of horror are enough to cause weaker hearts to quail, but there are those who resist the darkness, kingdoms and realms that fight for survival. The Empire, greatest of all the nations of Men musters regiments of brave soldiers. Armed with faith in Sigmar, their warrior god, and with tempered steel and black powder weapons they defend their lands. South and east of the Empire lies Bretonnia, a land of chivalry and noble tradition. There, bold knights harken the call of their mighty king and ride out to crusade against the monsters of the Old World. Dwarfs, in their mountain strongholds, are as unyielding as the stone around them as they battle above and below the ground. Loyal allies, but terrible enemies, the Dwarfs are brave-hearted and steadfast as they protect their once-great realm.

In far-off lands the Elves fight out their bitter blood feud against one another – a mighty civilisation that spanned the continents but is now riven with strife and betrayal. Perhaps the greatest warriors in all the world, their numbers are now few and too many of those that remain are lost each day in the unending war between Ulthuan and Naggaroth.

This is a world where victory and death rest upon a knife-edge and the fate of the world, be it damnation or salvation, will soon be decided.

Warhammer, the Game of Fantasy Battles will be released in July. The preparation for this date has been a time of great excitement here in the Studio as we have lavished detail, care and attention onto the rulebook and the fantastic Citadel miniatures range that it accompanies.

Now is the time to gather your regiments, paint your armies and prepare for a battle like never before. If you have a Warhammer army, dust it off and finish up those last few models. If you’ve always been tempted to collect a force there really has never been a better time to start! Warhammer is coming and it’s going to be great."

I know its supposed to be the twin tailed comet and Ghal Maraz, but doesn't it look like the hammer is being rocket propelled up and out of the fight?

It actually does, and that's what makes it so awesome! Rocket-propelled hammers will likely be a new weapon for the Empire, causing a Strength 6 hit on an enemy character within 24"

I don't know that I'm looking overly forward to it. I'm a rough person when it comes to change. I think 7th was probably the one of the best rulesets GW has produced in a really long time. It's pretty solid through and through and fairly well written. It's the army book rebuilds that contorted the game and smashed it up. However... it's not like we can avoid it eh.

I think it's coming out on the 10th according to BOLS http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2010/04/w...ghted.html

Also looking forward to seeing less wizards and more fighting. I can see empire becoming popular as hockland rifles will give them magical supremacy as there will be less wizards to shoot and taking one out could turn the magic in the the empire player's hands. I wonder if they will actually redo Dogs of War this edition. They could just use things from the empire and warriors of chaos army books to make the book.

Warriors of Chaos? Why? Just add dwarfs, ogres, halflings and pikemen to the Ampire and your'e done. Oh, and fast cavalry, duellists, hot pots, norse... okay they might need their own book.

Because with warriors of chaos you could get rid of minor stuff and add some new stuff without it being unbalanced.
I'd get rid of warriors of chaos and add Marksmen, which would be a shooting unit that would be BS4 have a base value of 3 pts, but they MUST take a shooting weapon of wither a handgun, crossbow, or longbow. Also, in core you could give marauders the option, of an extra hand weapon, spear or (pike). I would give marauder horsemen bows. And then add in duellists to the core choice.
I would then get rid of forsaken and replace them with halflings.
I would also get rid of DO and replace them with Dwarfs.
In rare I would just add the option to add a cannon or halfling hotpot rather than the DO shag.With the heroes just give them the option to buy a pistol or brace of pistols and you can keep the army as it is. I would change the name of other units, such as a chaos spawn to Wild beast and Scyla to Bobo. I add some lore about the gods so even though you would have Slaanesh rules you are worshipping myrmidia etc. This is just what I would do if I had to create a new Dogs of War book, as it is less effort then starting from scratch and is kind of balanced and allows you to create nearly any Dogs of War army. I would also PDF the ROR and create some new ones as well. Also, I forgot to add that the DP would be a dragon that could cast spells. Just keep the rules as they are but change what model your using. The dragon has learnt to cast spells rather than breath fire( I know some do both). You could give them Blood Roar or Steam of corrupt and pretend that they are breath attacks ( I know one is). I am just saying that the WOC book and Empire book can be melded to create an Dogs of War with minimal effort trying to balance them out. I would change Throgg to an ogre king and he makes ogres a core choice costs 185 points and has chaos armour (with the ability to buy a handgun and great weapon or additional hand weapon, the profile would also be changed to say he has a hand weapon). Would also get rid of Kholek.

I would definitely not use WoC as a blueprint for making dogs of war, they have not that much in common. You could use marauders as norse, horsemen as light cavalry, chaos ogres as ogres... and that's it. Empire would be a much better starting point, as most of the dogs of war list is based on humans. But come on:

(04-19-2010 06:15 PM)arkfatalis Wrote: [ -> ]"I would then get rid of forsaken and replace them with halflings.
I would also get rid of DO and replace them with Dwarfs.
In rare I would just add the option to add a cannon or halfling hotpot rather than the DO shag."

You are not seriously suggesting to use forsaken as a build for halflings, or dragon ogres as a build for dwarfs?!

Anyway, you don't really need to base dogs of war on any book to make their own army, because they already have it! However, if they would incorporate dogs of war into any army in 8th ed, it would be with Empire. Definitely not WoC.

The Games Workshop Newsletter Wrote:All these examples of horror are enough to cause weaker hearts to quail, but there are those who resist the darkness, kingdoms and realms that fight for survival. The Empire, greatest of all the nations of Men musters regiments of brave soldiers. Armed with faith in Sigmar, their warrior god, and with tempered steel and black powder weapons they defend their lands. South and east of the Empire lies Bretonnia, a land of chivalry and noble tradition. There, bold knights harken the call of their mighty king and ride out to crusade against the monsters of the Old World.

Per my other thread, if this is a Fluff change, it's a bad one, and I'll probably sit out 8E until such time as Dogs of War get an Army Book.

(04-19-2010 10:54 PM)JohnHwangDW Wrote: [ -> ]

The Games Workshop Newsletter Wrote:All these examples of horror are enough to cause weaker hearts to quail, but there are those who resist the darkness, kingdoms and realms that fight for survival. The Empire, greatest of all the nations of Men musters regiments of brave soldiers. Armed with faith in Sigmar, their warrior god, and with tempered steel and black powder weapons they defend their lands. South and east of the Empire lies Bretonnia, a land of chivalry and noble tradition. There, bold knights harken the call of their mighty king and ride out to crusade against the monsters of the Old World.

Per my other thread, if this is a Fluff change, it's a bad one, and I'll probably sit out 8E until such time as Dogs of War get an Army Book.

Some idiot in Nottingham couldn't divide west from east! That's all.

@dogs of war AB:

We have all units we need, so we don't need much playtesting. All we need are changed point costs, new magical items and perhaps an army special rule...e' voila: 8edi Dogs of War!

The really annoying thing is that if we got the old style Empire list containing Dwarves, Halflings and Ogres, and they then gave the option for spearmen to carry pikes I think most of us would be okay

What I was saying is replace them, as it would give them equal special slots. Dwarfs would be a hard hitting unit like the DO's are and halflings would be a unit that isn't that good like the rest of the army like forsaken are. I was suggesting that you could use marauder stats and give them more options. If you don't like the name of some of the units change marauder cav to just raiders and give them the option of a bow and change marauders to sell swords. I am saying that you could change the WOC book with minimal effort without making it unbalanced. Chnaging a name doesn't make it unbalanced. Chaos warhounds could change to Dogs of War but if you still use the same stats, it doesn't make much different.
I doubt GW will do a PDF as PDF's don't make money so the only way they would update Dogs of War is with a army book, or they won't do it at all.

(04-20-2010 07:52 AM)arkfatalis Wrote: [ -> ]What I was saying is replace them, as it would give them equal special slots. Dwarfs would be a hard hitting unit like the DO's are and halflings would be a unit that isn't that good like the rest of the army like forsaken are. I was suggesting that you could use marauder stats and give them more options. If you don't like the name of some of the units change marauder cav to just raiders and give them the option of a bow and change marauders to sell swords. I am saying that you could change the WOC book with minimal effort without making it unbalanced. Chnaging a name doesn't make it unbalanced. Chaos warhounds could change to Dogs of War but if you still use the same stats, it doesn't make much different.
I doubt GW will do a PDF as PDF's don't make money so the only way they would update Dogs of War is with a army book, or they won't do it at all.

Okay, that still doesn't add up at all. Dwarfs are not hard hitting, they are a static block of infantry, and Dragon Ogres are ogresized shock troops, you couldn't have picked two units more alike from each other (figuratively speaking). Same goes for halflings and forsaken, just because you say they both are "a unit that isn't that good like the rest of the army" doesn't mean they are anything alike, and they are not.

WoC, a close combat army with monsters and mutated soldiers, are NOT a good way to represent human mercenaries with little armour and lots of shooting. How on earth are you gonna get in units like pikemen, crossbowmen, war machines and duellists?! Not to mention actually keeping them with normal human stats. And don't say "just exchange warriors for pikemen, they are basically the same, so there won't be any unbalance". Not too mention changing the chaos lores, the characters, the large number of monsters, the magic items, the marks, everything that is chaos basically... and in the end, when you have done all that, how much of that book is really based on WoC? It would be like starting out with the script for Lost and ending up with Family Guy!

Maybe they will be adding ships if you see the teaservideo.

Any thoughts on this?

NOT looking forward to it, Games Workshops is changing too rapidly, making us buy new books for the hobby, that combined with the already high prices are driving people from the hobby if anything, I think this will damage interest. I thought 7th edition was great because the battle for skull pass box was a marvolous way to get people started.

Huh? GW has been pretty clear that each game edition is on a 4-year clock.

It seems that the rules changes will be much more dramatic, than it was in case of 7th ed. Therefor there are errata comming out for every AB... I'm really afraid there will be no more support for Dogs of War... Hope I'm wrong...

I am with you Aldhick, Dogs of War will now be 3 editions since their last book. Gw could scrap them completly. The rules for Dogs of War are now going to so outof sync with every army. Chaos dwarfs have at least the new Indy rules to play with, and that is an acceptable tournament rule list. Dogs of War army arn't even able to take ror in tournaments.

Haven't they tried to sneak us out slowly for quite a time now? The RoR get less over time in the online shop and my suspicion is, that only RoR which sells well are still there: Look at it:
- Slayerpirates are there, everybody likes pirates.
- The pikemen-Regiment, theyre quite unique and good looking.
- Goblin Hewer, Slayer --> pirate --> YIAR!!!111
- Lumpin Croop - Everybody likes halflings.
- Voland - Hm, well V-shields and Voland looks nice.
That's it, I think.
But that doesn't mean, we have to die out, I mean, Chaos Dwarfs havent got a armybook ince ... 1991? and even then it was only a White Dwarf summary. Still people play them and it will be no different with Dogs Of War. I rather quit playing Orks than quitting my beloved mercenary scum!