This owes a good deal to the Forgeworld Chaos War Mammoth, but I've fairly thoroughly mangled and reworded its text. A lot was striving for clarity, but also to change the way it plays so it's not just the Chaos War Mammoth with the serial numbers filed off.
Does anyone see any big honkin' problems with this thing? I was trying to make it fairly worth its points, but not an automatic must-have. The 4d6 impact hits are a big concern, but at 600 points and a Rare slot I also want to make this thing able to earn back its points.
Quote:Kislevite War Mammoth
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
6 3 0 8 7 10 2 3 5
- Equipment: light armor, howdah
- Options:
May carry up to six Kossars in addition to the rider (see Kislev army book). Kossar unit may have full command.
- Special Rules: Scaly Skin 4+, Lummox, Immune to Psychology, Stubborn, Large Target, Terror, Trample, Stomp, Gore, Bellow, Howdah, Blundering Rampage
Save: The plates on the side of the War Mammoth give it a 6+ armour save. Its thick hide, blubber, and fur give it a 4+ scaly skin save, which combined with the armour come to a 3+ armour save.
Lummox: So huge and heavy is the War Mammoth that it can step over or easily crush obstacles such as walls and fences without breaking stride. Treat any obstacles that are not higher than the War Mammoth's knees as open ground. The War Mammoth is a lumbering beast and cannot make a March move. It may still charge as normal.
Immune to Psychology: Nothing scares an enraged War Mammoth! They are immune to Psychology. It confers this ability on those it carries as well.
Stubborn: Crotchety and belligerent, War Mammoths always ignore break test modifiers. They impart this ability on units riding them, and as a monstrous mount the War Mammoth uses its rider's Leadership for break tests.
Large Target: War Mammoths are…well, mammoth-sized! It is a large target.
Terror: The War Mammoth is massive, shaking the ground with its foot falls, bellowing and snorting as it crushes all before it. A War Mammoth causes terror in their foes. See the Warhammer Psychology rules for details. A War Mammoth has a unit strength of 10 plus the strength of the unit in its howdah (18, if it's carrying a full complement).
Trample
When it charges an unit the War Mammoth just walks right into and over the enemy troops, crushing them beneath its massive feet, smashing them with its tusks and trunk and generally throwing its massive weight about. This can have a devastating affect on densely-packed troops, but skirmishers can more easily evade the trampling. A unit charged by a War Mammoth sustains 1d6 impacts hits plus another 1d6 impact hits per rank of the unit (maximum of 4d6).
When an enemy unit charges the War Mammoth, it may not elect to trample them. It simply lacks the momentum.
Stomp
If challenged, the War Mammoth's rider can elect to have the Mammoth simply squash the opposing unit like a bug. The War Mammoth makes a single Strength 10 attack against the opponent, dealing 1d6 wounds. Such is the overwhelming power of this attack that it crushes through armor, so no matter what his gear the opponent is allowed no armor save.
The War Mammoth cannot use this attack when its rider issues the challenge. Even mammoths have standards.
Gore
The War Mammoth may choose to forgo its close combat attacks in exchange for making an attack against every unit in contact with the front of its base. Each enemy model that it strikes with its gore attack whose unit strength is 3 or less is sent flying 2d6" straight back over its unit (so directly away from the War Mammoth). These models are separated from their unit, receiving d3 wounds (no armor saves allowed) from the combination of the Mammoth's tusks and flying through the air, and cause d6 S4 hits to whatever unit they might happen to land in if any. If they land in their own unit, they cause the hits but rejoin immediately. If not, they are treated as models orphaned from a massacred unit.
Bellow
This ability may be activated during the Kislev player's shooting phase. On a 4+ on the roll of a d6 the War Mammoth roars and bellows, forcing all enemies within 12" of it to take a Leadership test. So terrifying and intimidating is this display that if they fail, the units immediately flee directly away from the War Mammoth. This ability does not affect units in close combat, nor does it affect units immune to psychology or terror-causing units. The War Mammoth may not bellow if it is already in close combat.
Howdah
The War Mammoth must serve a single character (typically a Boyar, but it can be any generic character from a friendly list, IE: a Bretonnian lord or damsel, but not a Wood Elf highborn or branchwraith) as a monstrous mount. A wizard may cast spells from the back of the War Mammoth. He may cast spells and use magic missiles even while the War Mammoth is in close combat. If this character is the army's general, he may also have the army's battle standard bearer ride alongside him in the howdah. If not, or if the general does not elect to bring along the battle standard bearer, the unit of Kossars may have a magic banner worth up to 50 points.
The howdah may also carry a single unit of up to 6 Kossars. This unit may include a champion, banner bearer and musician. This unit may use its bows against enemies in close combat with the War Mammoth, but not if any other friendly unit is in close combat with the target. While in the howdah models are treated as being skirmishers in regards to making ranged attacks. If the War Mammoth is killed the surviving Kossars and characters must spend their next turn reforming.
Any models in the howdah can dismount from the War Mammoth to fight on foot as normal. The War Mammoth must remain stationary for the entire turn and those dismounting (down ropes and rope ladders) can do nothing else (including casting spells) in the turn they dismount. They are formed up in a single unit in base contact with the War Mammoth model as if reforming. Once dismounted they may not remount, as this would take far too long.
A character may dismount to take part in a challenge and may automatically remount or continue fighting on the ground if he survives.
Ranged attacks against the War Mammoth are randomized as follows. On a 1-4, the ranged attack targets the War Mammoth. On a 5-6, the ranged attack targets the unit in the howdah. The howdah grants hard cover to all models inside it.
All close combat attacks against the War Mammoth and its riders must be resolved against the War Mammoth, not the riders who are too high up to be hit. Close combat attacks by flying creatures can be targeted at either the riders or the War Mammoth itself.
Troops riding a War Mammoth are immune to psychology, having a certain cockiness due to their mount's sheer size and power, but if they fail a panic test or break check the unit is destroyed, leaping off the back of the War Mammoth and dying from the fall or deserting if they survive the drop. Note that this only applies to Kossars, not to characters. Characters riding a War Mammoth who fail a break check can take no actions until they and the War Mammoth rally, but will not leap off.
The War Mammoth is so tall that troops in the howdah can use it as a siege tower, and can exit the howdah onto castle battlements and towers as if it was a siege tower.
Blundering Rampage
Once a War Mammoth is badly wounded it is likely to become uncontrollably wild and begin to rampage out of control. At the start of the Kislev player's turn roll a D6. If the score is higher than the War Mammoth's remaining wounds it becomes Frenzied and Stupid. Due to the height of the War Mammoth, not even other large targets can block its line of sight. Obstructing terrain still blocks the War Mammoth's line of sight provided it is tall enough. While the War Mammoth can lose this Frenzy if it is beaten in battle, the Kislev player must roll again to check for renewed Frenzy on the next turn. The Stupidity lasts until the end of the game, no matter how many wounds the War Mammoth recovers.
This basically means that the War Mammoth, while blundering about, is still possessed of a pretty healthy bloodlust when sufficiently enraged. Its pain while wounded might make it ignore the orders from its riders, but if it catches sight of an opponent it'll promptly charge it to make with the stompy.
Points
600 + cost of the unit and/or character carried. The War Mammoth counts as one Rare choice for a Kislev Allied Contingent and may not be taken from the main army list's slots, and so can only be fielded in a battle of 3,000 points or higher. The unit of Kossars and the character must be bought separately.
Cool rules, but a bit too much to remember imo. Also not so sure it really fits Kislev, it seems more like a Norse/Chaos thing to me. One question though, what book are you referring to here?: (see Kislev army book)
Yeah, it does have a lot of rules in it. Considering it'll only see action in big honkin' combats, that is a problem. I'm reviewing it now for abilities to drop. Right now Bellow (it's powerful) and possibly Gore (it's clunky) are on the block. Feeling ambitious as I am, I might break down a lot of these abilities into optional upgrades for the War Mammoth.
The Norse/Chaos may have the most famous mammoths, but I don't think the Kislevites ought to pass up a good idea just because their enemies use it - particularly as they're lacking in dragon-scale monstrous mounts. I use the West Wind Dwarven War Mammoth to represent this big dude, so I think I overshot dragons and went straight into "walking fortress with tusks". It's smaller than the Chaos War Mammoth, hence the stats being somewhat weaker.
I've seen lists that give the Kislevites ice dragons, and it just seemed a bit contrived to me, giving all lists dragons - especially when dragons dislike the cold. Mammoths already exist in-setting, I like mammoths, so it seems like a decent idea.
I'm referring to the rules Games Workshop put out, the ones that have Kislev as an allied contingent. It seemed a bit pretentious to be putting in this as an add-on to your army book (which I'm working up a post about now, actually). If adapted to your book, I'd definitely drop the Stubborn (being Kin of the Bear God) and make it a mount available only to Marshals, Ice Witches, and Hag Mothers - the Lords. I wrote it as being available to all generic characters as it is due to the fact that the original Kislev list lacked generic Lords.
Ah, I see. It's not bad rules at all, just a bit much (then again, so is the giant).
And it is quite probable that they would have War Mammoths, although not too common.
It feels more like a forgeworld thing as you say, as an add-on on the side for really big battles (like the steam tank used to be). Which is great really, we on the develop team are doing the same for Dogs of War. So while I don't think it would fit among the common rules as just one rare choice that gets taken in every army *cough* stank cough*, it would be a great add-on like the chaos war mammoth
I could actually give it two pages of its own at the end of the bestiary, as one of those things you need opponents consent for. That way it wouldn't be part of the common list, but people looking to field one in their Kislev army would have the rules right there. If you could simplify the rules for it a bit and fit it onto two A4 pages (including fluff and hopefully a picture), I would be happy to do so
(03-26-2010 10:21 PM)M4cR1II3n Wrote: [ -> ]Ah, I see. It's not bad rules at all, just a bit much (then again, so is the giant).
And it is quite probable that they would have War Mammoths, although not too common.
It feels more like a forgeworld thing as you say, as an add-on on the side for really big battles (like the steam tank used to be). Which is great really, we on the develop team are doing the same for Dogs of War. So while I don't think it would fit among the common rules as just one rare choice that gets taken in every army *cough* stank cough*, it would be a great add-on like the chaos war mammoth
I could actually give it two pages of its own at the end of the bestiary, as one of those things you need opponents consent for. That way it wouldn't be part of the common list, but people looking to field one in their Kislev army would have the rules right there. If you could simplify the rules for it a bit and fit it onto two A4 pages (including fluff and hopefully a picture), I would be happy to do so
Outstandalicious. To hit the space requirements I'm cutting out some of the abilities (Bellow and Gore), and I probably would've taken out Stomp except for the mental image of the rider looking down disdainfully at some uppity champion while his Mammoth splats it constantly giving me the giggles. I also took out explanations for common abilities, and I think I managed to cut the Howdah section by a good deal without taking out any meaning.
I agree, the War Mammoth should never be standard-issue for Kislev armies.
That could be kinda awesome. I'd certainly appreciate you sparing a coupla pages for this old guy.
Fluff I can do quite soon, a picture will take some time as I still have to finish converting the mammoth 'miniature' to carry the Kossars and characters and then paint it (or perhaps the other way around). I'm working on simplifying its rules as we speak, hopefully down to no more than a page-and-a-half to a page so I can get in some good, worthwhile fluff. Expect the revision up within a day or two.
And here she is. I tried attaching the original Wordpad document, but it wasn't being agreeable. This
should be two pages, at least according to my word processor. I tied the War Mammoth in with Tor, so it only made sense to leave the Bellow ability in.
Quote:While the most famous battles in the Storm of Chaos took place around Middenheim, they were far from the only battles. One battle in the steppes of the Northern Oblast, though tactically insignificant, was nonetheless quite important. A small group of kossars and civilian refugees under the command of the boyar Dmitri Oktabrinov, fleeing a stalitsa destroyed by Chaos forces, came across a herd of steppe mammoths. Rare beasts in Kislev, Dmitri took their appearance to be an ill omen. After all, mammoths had served the Chaos marauders as beasts of war for millennia. Despair set in among the doughty kossars at seeing their boyar so dejected, knowing their time was up as soon as the warriors of Chaos caught them.
However, this was not to be. A hag mother who had escaped with the refugees approached Dmitri with a vision the spirits had given her: Capture the matriarch, and the other mammoths will join the fight against the Chaos marauders. Taking his standard-bearer and six of the strongest kossars with him, Dmitri set out to hunt the matriarch of the mammoth herd. After two days and nights of stalking the great beast, Dmitri and his men finally cornered the matriarch on a storm-torn night. With lightning streaking the sky above and thunder echoing in their ears over the mammoth's trumpeting, they attacked.
While Dmitri and his men were out stalking the mammoths, the marauders finally caught up with the refugees on the third night. Despairing of living through the coming battle, much less ever seeing their captain again, the kossars nonetheless stood their ground. As the marauders charged, screaming bloody warcries, the kossars barely noticed the ground beneath them trembling far out of proportion to the dozens of warriors attacking.
Dmitri's war mammoth had arrived.
There are few war mammoths, as they are expensive to feed and even more expensive to field. So expensive, in fact, that there are only seven war mammoths alive - Dmitri's mammoth and her children. Clad in silver armor marked with runes sacred to Tor, the god of storms and war, they carry a Kislevite officer, his standard-bearer, and six kossars into battle much as Dmitri's war mammoth had in that battle in the steppes.
Kislevite War Mammoth
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
6 3 0 8 7 10 2 3 5
Equipment: light armor, howdah
Options:
May carry up to six Kossars in addition to the rider (see Kislev army book). Kossar unit may have full command for the normal point costs.
Special Rules: Scaly Skin 4+, Lummox, Immune to Psychology, Stubborn, Large Target, Terror, Trample, Stomp, Bellow, Howdah, Blundering Rampage
Immune to Psychology
Stubborn
Large Target
Terror
Lummox
So huge and heavy is the War Mammoth that it can step over or easily crush obstacles such as walls and fences without breaking stride. Treat any obstacles that are not higher than the War Mammoth's knees as open ground. The War Mammoth is a lumbering beast and cannot make a March move. It may still charge as normal.
Trample
When it charges an unit the War Mammoth just walks right into and over the enemy troops, crushing them beneath its massive feet, smashing them with its tusks and trunk and generally throwing its massive weight about. This can have a devastating affect on densely-packed troops, but skirmishers can more easily evade the trampling. A unit charged by a War Mammoth sustains 1d6 impacts hits plus another 1d6 impact hits per rank of the unit (maximum of 4d6).
When an enemy unit charges the War Mammoth, it may not elect to trample them.
Stomp
If challenged, the War Mammoth's rider can elect to have the Mammoth simply squash the opposing unit like a bug. The War Mammoth makes a single Strength 10 attack against the opponent, dealing 1d6 wounds. Such is the overwhelming power of this attack that it crushes through armor, so no matter what his gear the opponent is allowed no armor save.
The War Mammoth cannot use this attack when its rider issues the challenge. Even mammoths have standards.
Bellow
This ability may be activated during the Kislev player's shooting phase. On a 4+ on the roll of a d6 the War Mammoth roars and bellows, forcing all enemies within 12" of it to take a Leadership test. So terrifying and intimidating is this display that if they fail, the units immediately flee directly away from the War Mammoth. This ability does not affect units in close combat, nor does it affect units immune to psychology or terror-causing units. The War Mammoth may not bellow if it is already in close combat.
Howdah
The War Mammoth must serve a Marshal, Ice Witch, or Hag Mother as a monstrous mount. A wizard may cast spells from the back of the War Mammoth. He may cast spells and use magic missiles even while the War Mammoth is in close combat. If this character is the army's general, he may also have the army's battle standard bearer ride alongside him in the howdah. If not, or if the general does not elect to bring along the battle standard bearer, the unit of Kossars may have a magic banner worth up to 50 points.
The howdah may also carry a single unit of up to 6 Kossars. This unit may use its bows against enemies in close combat with the War Mammoth, but not if any other friendly unit is in close combat with the target. If the War Mammoth is killed the surviving Kossars and characters must spend their next turn reforming. The howdah grants hard cover to all models inside it. Though they are immune to psychology, if they fail a break check or panic test the unit is destroyed from troops deserting or dying from jumping off the Mammoth's back.
Any models in the howdah can dismount from the War Mammoth to fight on foot as normal. The War Mammoth must remain stationary for the entire turn and those dismounting (down ropes and rope ladders) can do nothing else (including casting spells) in the turn they dismount. They are formed up in a single unit in base contact with the War Mammoth model as if reforming. Once dismounted they may not remount, as this would take far too long. A character may dismount to take part in a challenge and may automatically remount or continue fighting on the ground if he survives.
All close combat attacks against the War Mammoth and its riders must be resolved against the War Mammoth, not the riders who are too high up to be hit. Close combat attacks by flying creatures can be targeted at either the riders or the War Mammoth itself.
Blundering Rampage
Once a War Mammoth is badly wounded it is likely to become uncontrollably wild and begins to rampage out of control. At the start of each of the Kislev player's turns roll a D6. If the score is higher than the War Mammoth's remaining wounds it becomes Frenzied and Stupid. Due to the height of the War Mammoth, not even other large targets can block its line of sight. Obstructing terrain still blocks the War Mammoth's line of sight provided it is tall enough.
Points
600 + cost of the unit and/or character carried. The War Mammoth counts as one Rare choice and can only be fielded in a battle of 3,000 points or higher. The unit of Kossars and the character must be bought separately.
Definitely easier to remember! I will add it to the book and name you in the credits.
I'd just make one change and make it take up two rare choices, otherwise you could possibly field 3 of them in a 3000 pts battle!
(03-28-2010 05:25 AM)M4cR1II3n Wrote: [ -> ]Definitely easier to remember! I will add it to the book and name you in the credits.
I'd just make one change and make it take up two rare choices, otherwise you could possibly field 3 of them in a 3000 pts battle!
Glad you like it better. Thanks a lot for putting it in your book!
That's a change I can live with. I'd reduced it to one Rare choice because it was limited to being a Lord's mount, but even that potentially allows two of 'em in a 3,000-point battle. With six in all of Kislev, nobody should be fielding more than one in anything smaller than the whole dang army of all Kislev marching.
I will look over the points of it too, I have a feeling it might be considerable cheaper than 600 pts, if you compare it to a stegadon or a giant. I won't change the rules though.