Our local store is going to run a small Warband campaign. For those of you, like me, who have no idea what this is exactly, just think of it as a very low-points game of Warhammer where the minimum unit sizes are greatly reduced. We start the games at 200 points and slowly increase it week after week up to about 500 points.
I, of course, will be taking a Dogs of War warband, and if I choose to hire a RoR, I have to take them at their minimum unit size. Anyway... I've choosen to take the Lost Legion, using these little games to highlight the exploits of Pirazzo before he went and got lost.
so, overall, my 200 points looks thusly:
Pirazzo (llight armour, 2 hand weps, xbow)
4 xbows (light armour, standard, muscian)
5 Pikemen (light armour)
4 Duelists (pistols)
I actually save 8 points by hiring the basic Legion instead of buying all of its components seperately, but my big concern is the armour value of this band. It's either nothing (the duelists), or a measly 6+. By looking at them, it seems the Legion works best in a defensive role, where it can stand-and-shoot/hold against anything that tries to charge it. But how does one compensate for their low armour?
In Warbands-Games you don't win, with many small units, but with one big unit of pikeman.
The other thing that is going to hamper me, is that by taking the Legion, and by having Pirazzo as the warband's Captain, I can take no other characters. That means no mage whatsoever.
Ah well. We shall see what happens this week...
Are you using Warhammer rules or Modhiem, as Morhiem for this scale of armies can be quite fun. Especially at 100-300 points scale, which would mean you could have individual characters.
When I last played a small game using those rules I was playing Empire, but it was at 500 points. I went shooty heavy (handgunners and Lumpin Croop's) with a unit of sword and board. Many small units do work as long as some can move and shoot (bows) and others have stopping power (S4 X-Bows for Dogs of War Handguns for Empire or Dwarfs.)
(11-07-2009 02:04 AM)Braden Campbell Wrote: [ -> ]The other thing that is going to hamper me, is that by taking the Legion, and by having Pirazzo as the warband's Captain, I can take no other characters. That means no mage whatsoever.
Ah well. We shall see what happens this week...
Since the games are at such a low point level, Mages are almost irrelevant anyway. The most they can have is what? A Level 2? You have 2 dispel dice, which should hopefully be enough.
I think in up to 500 point games, 1 hero is enough anyway. Otherwise you start spending a lot of points on characters, and ours aren't that great anyway (No magic items).
I've never played warbands, so can't really give you any advice on the list though.
The Legion had its first two games tonight, both against Dark Elves... and both times it masacred them!
First game:
Pirazzo and his men stayed right where they first deployed, while a unit of three light cavalry (replacing the duelists mentioned earlier) rode off in a wide flanking manuever. Across the field were 2 three-man units of repeater xbows, and a five-man unit of black guard lead by their special character.
The cavalry ended up being shot down in a hail of bolts, but the actual Legion only lost a single man. The heaviest damage they dished out was on the black guard, whom they shot down to a man, leaving only the leader. He charged the Legion, and toughness tests to even fight him were rolled. The pikes in the back row went first - no wounds. Then, through some miracle, this Dark Elf failed to inflict a single wound on anyone. For his efforts, Pirazzo cut him down, and the battle was squarely won.
Second game:
This time the Legion faced off against 2 three-man units of repeater xbows, and a 2nd level Dark Elf sorceress. Pirazzo prepped his two dispell dice and prepared to die.
A large hill sperated the two forces, and the Dark Elves crested it first. The sorceress killed three pikemen with a magical blast, but failed to cast chilwind (which woud have taken the Legion's BS down to 1). The cavalry rode right on through the six shots that went flying their way. Pirazzo, realizing that the Dark elves were never going to come down off the hill and charge him, went on the offensive. He charged up the hill, and was cirtically wounded in doing so. As he fell, the Legion revenged killed everyone in their path, actually overrunning down the other side. The three cavalrymen rode down the remaining xbow units, crashed into the sorceress, and killed her too.
All in all, even though this was a very small points game, I am impressed with the Lost Legion. Its ability to stand and shoot and then hit with (potentialy) 4 ranks of pikes is stunning. It's not bad on the offensive either. So, Pirazzo's wounds will be patched up, and next week he will again lead his men into the fires of war(bands)... only he'll be bringing a cannon and two more light cavalrymen to take his army up to 300 points.
The Lost Legion will only hit with a Maximum 3 ranks of pikes, front rank has xbows not pikes so no pike attack for them.
(11-13-2009 11:10 PM)BilboBaggins Wrote: [ -> ]The Lost Legion will only hit with a Maximum 3 ranks of pikes, front rank has xbows not pikes so no pike attack for them.
Interesting. I had assumed that pikes continued to fight in four ranks, even if the if the front rank contained no pikes - hence the advantage of hiring the only "mixed formation" in the game that I'm aware of.
For example, if the Legion is a bloc of men 5 ranks deep, and it is charged, would not the xbows guys in the front fight, backed by the remaining four ranks of pikes, because pikes fight in four ranks?
Pikes fight in 4 ranks but because lost legion has crossbows in front rank you lose that rank of pikes. You don't gain an extra rank of attacks. They still stand and shoot and hit first when charged.
It's a tiny bit of a grey area, because it never specifically spells it out. But i agree with Bilbo. It states
"Weapons used in ranks enables troops to fight in a second or subsequent rank to fight in close combat as well as the warriors in the first rank who are actually touching the enemy" - This implies the first rank, regardless of weapon type, counts as the first rank, because the first rank must be the one who is touching the enemy.
Makes sense.
Anyway a few more games this week before we up the warband limit to 300 points. Firstly, two losses against an orc/goblin horde that had me outnumbered nearly 2.5 to 1. There was simply too much to deal with, and the Legion was soundly defeated; the first time loosing the three light cav, the second time loosing everyone (although we did kill the 15 goblin archers).
In the third game, Pirazzo and his men (13 models in all) faced off against - are you ready for this? - 50 skaven. Seeing how outnumbering had worked so well in the greenskin's favour, I prepared to die almost immediately. However, the Skaven player was in for several nasty shocks, foremost being that the range on a xbow is 30". While two units of slaves and a unit of stormvermin barreled towards the Legion, the three cavalrymen drew the remaining twenty slaves away.
My opponent's second nasty surprize came when I informed him that the pikes in the back row of the Legion stike first. Squash, there went the unit that was attacking. Pirazzo then charged the stormvermin, forcing them to flee off the table. The remaining slaves were all killed, taking two of the three horsemen with them when they exploded into a frenzy. Withall, a stunning victory for Fernando Pirazzo.
Next, we add a cannon and two more light cavalry models for a total of 300 points.
The point limit increased this week to 300 points, and after much deliberation as to what I should do, I chose to bulk up the Legion, and save the cannon and additional two light cav until next week. And it turned out to be the wise choice. All told, Pirazzo's Legion now numbers 7 men across, with 13 pikes behind.
First game round was a rematch against the Skaven... only this time the number of slaves was greatly reduced. Some kind of warp fire flame thrower killed several of my pikes, and this was when I was thankful that I took so many extra wounds. As men melted into pikles of goo, Pirazzo simply held his ground, and kept plugging away with his crossbow. What a man! Eventually, the Legion forced a big bloc of stormvermin to flee and never come back, which won them the game, despite the total loss of the three light cavalrymen.
Second game took place in a namelss desert, and involved the Chaos Dwarves. Basically, the Legion stayed where it was first deployed, and pumped round after round of bolts into an advancing unit of blunderbi, while the Dwarves peppered the Legion with buckshot. The superior numbers of the Legion prevailed again - they never panicked or broke. Meantime, the light cav did exactly what they are supposed to do: they went up the far left flank, lept cinematically over a ruined wall, and earased the Dwarven bolt thrower crew from the face of Mymidia's creation! Final result was a draw.
Third game was my first time facing Beastmen of Chaos, and was a disaster from the get-go. I ended up having to deploy my force into different corners... which at this points level meant one unit in each. Unable to castle up against some pretty overwhelming numbers, unable to hide in the woods from creatures that simply plow through them with their full charge range, and unable to support each other, the game was pretty much a write-off for me. Still, the Legion killed themselves a Chaos Spawn and about 6 beastmen before finally being scattered/destroyed, so, that's something. Final result was a definate loss.
Fourth and final game of the evening took place against a shooty Empire list (10 handgunners with upgraded long rifle, engineer with a repeater handgun) with some of the toughest knightly armour I have ever seen (mounted, barded, full plate with shield for a 1+ save). Again, the light cav did a splendid job by manuevering around behind the handgunners; fearing a rear charge, the Empire player turned them around.... which meant that he could no longer shoot the Legion, and then, thumbing their noses, the light cav simply rode away in a different direction. There was one scary moment when Pirazzo was shot in the chest by the long rifle, but Myrmidia was with him, and the bullet did no harm. The crowning glory was when the knights crashed into the Legion. I couldn't get them to fail an armour save no matter what, but still won the combat because of extra ranks, a banner, and outnumbering. As the Knights turned and fled, Pirazzo shot one of them dead. Final result; a second win.
Now here's the intersting thing. In ten previous games of 1000+ point Warhammer, my win rate is a lowly 20%. In ten games of Warbands however, my win rate is 50%. Is it because of the general lack of stupid magic and multiple-wound monsters running about in these smaller games, or something else?
IMO, you fighting against no Lords, no massed Heroes, no Special Characters, no uber Rares and certainly helps Dogs of War in Warbands. No Paymaster required is also a great help.
Personally I feel playing small games helps you in the long run and will make you a better overall player.
Well done, altough I'm surprised none of your opponents went missile/fast cav heavy. I wouldn't have expected a pike block to do well n games this small, as with a 6+ save and basic human stats I'dhave expected fast cavalry to outmanouvre and rear charge them. If I was playing a game to this scale I'd have picked a force of hounds and marauder horsemen.
Certainly though, the Lost Legion were a better choice than the other Dogs of War units going.
(11-19-2009 12:14 AM)AGPO Wrote: [ -> ]I wouldn't have expected a pike block to do well in games this small, as with a 6+ save and basic human stats I'd have expected fast cavalry to outmanouvre and rear charge them.
Oh, the Legion has been gutted several times, most notably by two crushing hordes of beastmen that sandwiched it from the front and left flank...
But as for cavalry trying to get to my sides or rear - a few have tried, but when I see them getting too close, Pirazzo simply stops whatever he was previously doing, totally reforms the ranks to intercept a charge you can see coming a mile away, and then stands-and-shoots/holds. The mixed formation of xbow and pike is really paying for itself, despite the flimsy armour everyone has on.
Good to hear, your Dogs did a good job! Congrates to ya.
Big WH-Games are Herohammer games, so there are some problems for the Dogs of War, what they don't have in little skirmish games.
(11-19-2009 12:14 AM)AGPO Wrote: [ -> ]If I was playing a game to this scale I'd have picked a force of hounds and marauder horsemen.
Daemons all the way.
I think for 200 points I'd have taken 5 Marksmen of Milangro with Maxamillian, 4 Crossbowmen and 3 Heavy Cav with barding.
No, in small wargames, big blocks of core-units make the victory, so a big block of pikes plus duelists or xbows would be better.
*************** 2 core***************
15 pikes
- Champion
- - - > 160 Punkte
8 duelists
- - - > 40 Punkte
Insgesamte Punkte Söldner : 200
In small games I find the more units you have the better. Under 500 points you really have to run Warbands or Warhammer in a Flash rules.
(03-14-2010 10:06 AM)w3rm Wrote: [ -> ]I think for 200 points I'd have taken 5 Marksmen of Milangro with Maxamillian, 4 Crossbowmen and 3 Heavy Cav with barding.
Warbands rules, Regiments of Renown must be taken at their minimum size. So you have to take the full 10 Marksmen costing 180 points.
(03-14-2010 07:44 PM)someone2040 Wrote: [ -> ]Warbands rules, Regiments of Renown must be taken at their minimum size. So you have to take the full 10 Marksmen costing 180 points.
Which is why I choose the Lost Legion... you get pike, xbow, and a hero-level charcter all in one selection.
In fact, since I first created this thread, I have yet to drop Pirazzo from my list. He and his men usually outlive everyone else, and because of this, all of the other players in our store have developed a deep, personal hatred for him. He has been shot with a Hochland Long Rifle nearly half a dozen times... so I make sure to include him just to rub their faces in it.
